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Is it possible for a selfish person to be generous?
I would like to know.

No, it's not possible.
A selfish person will be stingy and a selfless person will be generous.

Even the simple dictionary meaning for selfishness and selflessness tell us this.

At face value - Yes

At a deeper level - No

Selfishness comes with stinginess not with generousity. However some selfish people tend to be generous as a means to an end. They have planned what they would gain from every generous act, even when they give to people who are very close to them.

Generousity is a kind of transaction to selfish people.

Before I moved to where I'm currently staying, I asked the person I was renting from how electricity bill would be paid.
She told me a certain amount every time the unit finishes, it's a shared apartment and each person will have to contribute once the unit runs down.

I moved in, and after some weeks, the oldest neighbor knocked at my door, I was sick at this time but I tried to listen to her, she told me the exact amount the property owner told me would be paid but this time, "WEEKLY" 😂😂 (instead of when the unit runs down or when it's indicating it's almost finishing so we won't be stranded).

Don't forget I told you I was sick and didn't have strength even to talk, I nodded my head and said ok, just for her to leave on time. (I observed a smile on her face after I said ok without any form of question or argument).
 
Along the line, she asked, are you ok? (noticing I looked weak), and I told her no, I'm ill. She said 'oh sorry'!, she proceeded to ask if I had had any food that day, I told her yes. We ended the discussion and she left.

When I got in, I thought about it for a moment, that means the totality of what I would be spending on electricity would be more than my house rent itself.
That wasn't what I bargained and I don't even know what she was thinking, how she thought I would be able to afford that kind of money still baffles me. I could only be bothered for few moments, I was so ill, so I decided I would talk to her over the phone whenever I get a bit better.

The next day, around evening she knocked at my door again, I opened and she asked again if I had eaten, I told her yes. She said she bought me food as she bought herself a plate, she came with a nylon containing the food.
I smiled at her, appreciated the kind gesture and let her know I was already filled up with food and wouldn't be able to eat or accept the food. Then she left.
Was she being generous?.... I'll leave you to think that through.

The next day, I sent her a voice note explaining to her what my agreement was before I moved in, and I let her know the property owner told me once the unit finishes everyone sees it, it's not something hidden, she replied with... "sorry, ehhn, I was also trying to say the same thing just that you can prepare double the amount you were told by the owner as monthly payment  because we used to be 4 and now we are 3, we pay to the chief security officer of the property and there's a group where they pass information when we are running out of things like that or when any other thing comes up, I would add you to the group...blah blah blah".

I didn't care about anything she said after. I have let her know my initial bargain and that's on period! Although, I was expecting to be added to the group for transparency as she promised. I thanked her once again for the kind gesture (the food she brought a day before) and the conversation ended.

It's almost two months after, she never knocked at my door or contacted me on the phone for anything and she never added me to any group as promised, some things have came up though which I got information directly from the chief security officer but not related to electricity bill.

Now, let's go back to the food matter, with the whole story, did you think that was genuinely an act of generosity or a business deal?

Think it through, but one thing is certain, that's the kind of generous act that comes from selfish people.

Yes, a selfish person can be generous.
If you are in a bar with some people and you plan to spend long time there because you don't want to go home early, possibly because you don't like the faces you would meet at home or you will be bored when you get home.

You observe most people leave the bar after taking one or two bottles of beer. You don't want to be bored in the bar either, then you decide to buy more beer for people so the bar could remain lively.

To these people, you are generous but deep down your heart, you know you did it for your own sake.

If any of these people meet the selfish person and says 'give me the money for the beer instead', I want to use it. The selfish person would rather find an excuse because he knows what he (this other person) wants to use the money for can not be beneficial to him,  this other guy may end up leaving the bar on time afterall.

That's the kind of generosity you could get from a selfish person. It will look like generousity to many but hell no, it's not.

Quote from: Congra on Sep 16, 2024, 11:17 PMI moved in, and after some weeks, the oldest neighbor knocked at my door, I was sick at this time but I tried to listened to her, she told me the exact amount the property owner told me would be paid but this time, "WEEKLY" 😂😂 (instead of when the unit runs down or when it's indicating it's almost finishing so we won't be stranded).

Now, let's go back to the food matter, with the whole story, did you think that was genuinely an act of generosity or a business deal?

😂Your neighbor is definitely a business woman at heart.

Let me be unknown for the sake of this thread.

On this topic someone described two personalities as reasonably selfless, only to close people they truly cherish.

Well, as one of those two personalities, I would give you an example of what my generousity look like.

If I like you as a girl and I'm trying to get you to be my girlfriend, you tell me, hey! stop there I have a boyfriend. Alright, case closed.

You come to me after some period and tell me to help you out with some money, what I'll tell you is to go meet your boyfriend, even if I understand people could be broke sometimes, it could happen to me too where I won't be able to provide for my babe. However, at that point if I actually have that money I might decide to take my girlfriend out (if I have one) with the money or send it to her.

Now, to my girlfriend, I'm generous right?
To this other girl, I'm not, maybe even callous, i really do not care.

If I have issues with my same girlfriend and think the issue could make her end the relationship even though we are still on but we've got serious issues to deal with. At this point if she, this same girlfriend of mine come to ask for my help financially, I wouldn't do it, I'll tell her I'm not capable at the moment and I won't act as if I am, except she's smart enough to play along that the issue is resolved before she could even ask. If it's not a monetary thing and won't cost me anything or much, I could at least do it to impress her.

In the real sense, what this means is that looking at it from the real generousity perspective. I'm not generous.

But at face value as someone wrote up there, I could be very generous to those I care about.

Do I care about this method of generosity? I really don't.
On a second thought, maybe to a slight extent and that's why I'm writing this as Unknown.

Quote from: Unknown on Sep 17, 2024, 12:06 AMLet me be unknown for the sake of this thread.

On this topic someone described two personalities as reasonably selfless, only to close people they truly cherish.

Well, as one of those two personalities, I would give you an example of what my generousity look like.

If I like you as a girl and I'm trying to get you to be my girlfriend, you tell me, hey! stop there I have a boyfriend. Alright, case closed.

You come to me after some period and tell me to help you out with some money, what I'll tell you is to go meet your boyfriend, even if I understand people could be broke sometimes, it could happen to me too where I won't be able to provide for my babe. However, at that point if I actually have that money I might decide to take my girlfriend out (if I have one) with the money or send it to her.

Now, to my girlfriend, I'm generous right?
To this other girl, I'm not, maybe even callous, i really do not care.

If I have issues with my same girlfriend and think the issue could make her end the relationship even though we are still on but we've got serious issues to deal with. At this point if she, this same girlfriend of mine come to ask for my help financially, I wouldn't do it, I'll tell her I'm not capable at the moment and I won't act as if I am, except she's smart enough to play along that the issue is resolved before she could even ask.

In the real sense, what this mean is that looking at it from the real generousity perspective. I'm not generous.

But at face value as someone wrote up there, I could be very generous to those I care about.

Do I care about this method of generosity? I really don't.
On a second thought, maybe to a slight extent and that's why I'm writing this as Unknown.

Hmmm, I used to have a boyfriend that behaves somewhat like this. He takes you out and spend lavishly but when you ask him for money for your needs it's always hard to give, he will see you lacking and wouldn't even bother.
Then you keep wondering, I later realized he was taking me out not really to spoil me but to have fun himself without doing it all alone.

Anyways @Op selfishness is the mother of stinginess while selflessness is the mother of generosity.

Anywhere you see selfishness expect it to carry stinginess along and not generousity. True generousity run away from selfish people, they're not related.

Yes, a father might be selfish for example and still generously provide for his family so as to get absolute control and authority. It's a kind of "you give something to get something situation".

Yes, but only if he has his needs properly met, I mean more than expected. After that, he would think of giving as a way of acquiring more, it might not always be in terms of money, it could be in terms of fame or power.
He could openly donate to motherless home to get popular or build an hostel for the homeless so as to get them to vote him in for a political position.

If his motive behind giving isn't met, then you see a beast in him, and this is what differentiates selfish generosity and selfless generousity.

For a genuinely generous individual (selfless), nothing changes, in fact, there wouldn't be any motive behind the act of giving, he just gives.

Quote from: Unknown on Sep 17, 2024, 12:06 AMLet me be unknown for the sake of this thread.

On this topic someone described two personalities as reasonably selfless, only to close people they truly cherish.

Well, as one of those two personalities, I would give you an example of what my generousity look like.

If I like you as a girl and I'm trying to get you to be my girlfriend, you tell me, hey! stop there I have a boyfriend. Alright, case closed.

You come to me after some period and tell me to help you out with some money, what I'll tell you is to go meet your boyfriend, even if I understand people could be broke sometimes, it could happen to me too where I won't be able to provide for my babe. However, at that point if I actually have that money I might decide to take my girlfriend out (if I have one) with the money or send it to her.

Now, to my girlfriend, I'm generous right?
To this other girl, I'm not, maybe even callous, i really do not care.

If I have issues with my same girlfriend and think the issue could make her end the relationship even though we are still on but we've got serious issues to deal with. At this point if she, this same girlfriend of mine come to ask for my help financially, I wouldn't do it, I'll tell her I'm not capable at the moment and I won't act as if I am, except she's smart enough to play along that the issue is resolved before she could even ask. If it's not a monetary thing and won't cost me anything or much, I could at least do it to impress her.

In the real sense, what this means is that looking at it from the real generousity perspective. I'm not generous.

But at face value as someone wrote up there, I could be very generous to those I care about.

Do I care about this method of generosity? I really don't.
On a second thought, maybe to a slight extent and that's why I'm writing this as Unknown.

😲You have to go through all these calculations in your head just because you want to give?🤦

Quote from: Biu on Sep 17, 2024, 03:08 AM😲You have to go through all these calculations in your head just because you want to give?🤦

That's where the point is, it happens subconsciously, not something we are conscious of. It's innate.

No, they are takers not givers and they are the ones that don't lack. Givers lack in reality because most givers do not know how to ask.
Whereas asking is a natural skill for takers, even if they don't ask, they find their way to manipulate you into giving them. Only few of them don't care if they can't take from you but don't expect them to give to you either. Any good deed from a selfish person is to get something in return, they are not just "good for nothing".
Conclusion: you can't be selfish and be generous.

Well, i'm generous with money and selfish with my time and resources. People that work for me could testify, I compensate them well. So, I'll say selfish people can be generous in a particular aspect.

Quote from: Mokalamp on Sep 17, 2024, 06:33 AMWell, i'm generous with money and selfish with my time and resources. People that work for me could testify, I compensate them well. So, I'll say selfish people can be generous in a particular aspect.

By their fruit you shall know them, you are only doing the right thing, you are not doing anyone a favour by paying for their sweat.
I'm sure no amount of compensation could match with the level of work they do for you.
It is clear from your handwriting that you're not in anyway generous.

Quote from: Mokalamp on Sep 17, 2024, 06:33 AMWell, i'm generous with money and selfish with my time and resources. People that work for me could testify, I compensate them well. So, I'll say selfish people can be generous in a particular aspect.

You better stop paying your workers, I think that will be the best thing

Quote from: Hamani on Sep 17, 2024, 06:41 AMYou better stop paying your workers, I think that will be the best thing

His staff might be working 12 hours 6 days a week if you find out, then he pays them 5% above the market related value, and he's here to brag about paying them well. We know their type.

Quote from: Rocco on Sep 17, 2024, 06:46 AMHis staff might be working 12 hours 6 days a week if you find out, then he pays them 5% above the market related value, and he's here to brag about paying them well. We know their type.

I see no issues with what @Mokalamp said even though it doesn't seem right. Maybe he should have given another example instead of talking about staff salary.
Some selfless people also give as a form of getting something back, might not be that deep though (that's what makes the difference). I know someone that is really generous but I don't like the fact that he expects you to worship him after giving to you or he starts telling people how he helped you. Mind you, this person is sincerely selfless and not stingy, but he always expect praises after giving. Although, he doesn't expect more than that but I think that's not right too. I know it's courtesy to show gratitude after receiving but expecting the person you gave to start using microphone to announce to everyone isn't cool.

Quote from: Unknown on Sep 17, 2024, 12:06 AMLet me be unknown for the sake of this thread.

On this topic someone described two personalities as reasonably selfless, only to close people they truly cherish.

Well, as one of those two personalities, I would give you an example of what my generousity look like.

If I like you as a girl and I'm trying to get you to be my girlfriend, you tell me, hey! stop there I have a boyfriend. Alright, case closed.

You come to me after some period and tell me to help you out with some money, what I'll tell you is to go meet your boyfriend, even if I understand people could be broke sometimes, it could happen to me too where I won't be able to provide for my babe. However, at that point if I actually have that money I might decide to take my girlfriend out (if I have one) with the money or send it to her.

Now, to my girlfriend, I'm generous right?
To this other girl, I'm not, maybe even callous, i really do not care.

If I have issues with my same girlfriend and think the issue could make her end the relationship even though we are still on but we've got serious issues to deal with. At this point if she, this same girlfriend of mine come to ask for my help financially, I wouldn't do it, I'll tell her I'm not capable at the moment and I won't act as if I am, except she's smart enough to play along that the issue is resolved before she could even ask. If it's not a monetary thing and won't cost me anything or much, I could at least do it to impress her.

In the real sense, what this means is that looking at it from the real generousity perspective. I'm not generous.

But at face value as someone wrote up there, I could be very generous to those I care about.

Do I care about this method of generosity? I really don't.
On a second thought, maybe to a slight extent and that's why I'm writing this as Unknown.

Your type is rare, I've never seen a selfish person that acknowledges he or she is truly selfish. Even though your identity is hidden, you'll be the first ever!

Quote from: Romilade on Sep 20, 2024, 12:40 AMYour type is rare, I've never seen a selfish person that acknowledges he or she is truly selfish. Even though your identity is hidden, you'll be the first ever!

Not really their fault, we expect others to mirror us, and it's natural, it's wiring. It took me a long time to acknowledge too, what helped me most is the fact that I have selfless people in my immediate family, some other selfish people aren't lucky enough. All their life, it has always been fish eat fish to survive and as such you have yourself to guard. Therefore, acknowledging will be very difficult for people like that.

My economics teacher in high school once said, "loving your neighbor as yourself is different from loving your neighbor more than yourself". This is kind of the way we see it, and this is the theory any selfish person will quote to you.
He proceeded by saying, once you love your neighbor more than yourself, that's Foolishness. Meanwhile, in the real sense, that's "selflessness" not Foolishness.

It is clear enough from the dictionary definition of Selflessness.

Nevertheless, in the real world, are we (the selfish) loving our neighbors as ourselves?

Now, there are three stages to this thing;

1) Don't love your neighbor anywhere close to how you love yourself - Selfishness

2) Love your neighbor as yourself - Balanced, we can call it self-compassion. Some people may call it 'self-love' or self-care', but it's actually self-compassion.

3) Love your neighbor more than yourself - Selflessness.

The most healthy way to live for anyone is the number 2.

Only few people have this natural ability, most people fall between number 1 and 3. In fact, number 1 is the most common.

To all selfless people, always remember to take good care of yourself. Don't let anyone take your Selflessness for Foolishness.

I'm trying to be a better person but it's pretty tough to fight nature.