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Posted by Beanbeen
- Oct 26, 2024, 07:07 PMYes, there really was.
There were people there that confirmed he was crucified such as Mary Magdalene, Salome and others.
There were people there that confirmed he was crucified such as Mary Magdalene, Salome and others.
Posted by Hamani
- Oct 26, 2024, 06:58 PMAccording to Islam, Qu'ran 4:157 let us know that he was ascended to heaven, which means Jesus (PBUH) was not crucified or killed it only appeared like that to them, he did not di.
I will say the whole event was miraculous.
I will say the whole event was miraculous.
Posted by Jaykap
- Oct 26, 2024, 02:55 PMQuote from: Mafy on Oct 26, 2024, 01:25 PMAs for carrying his cross up the mountain, Only John particularly reports Jesus carried his cross, and others excluding John include Simon of Cyrene, who was employed by the soldiers from the gathering to carry or help carry the cross.I agree with everything you said, at the bolded however, John was a disciple present at the event, if we have to believe every other thing John said, we need to believe Jesus carried his own cross as well.
He was beaten, on his head was inserted a crown of thorns, he was given the vinegar through a sponge, but does this really equate to the then Romans' torture (which was called crucifixion) before his death?
I would say NO, he died so fast before the actual crucifixion (torture) could begin. He died on his own without being killed or going through the real crucifixion.
Now @Op, in the ancient times when the Romans crucify people, they break their legs and leave them to suffer in pain till they die, that's the most important part of crucifixion.
The point now is that Jesus Crucifixion didn't get to this point before he died. So it seems his death naturally occured and they were not able to crucify him, but they could think he died as a result of the stress preceding this stage.
Scientists over the years have argued he could have died as a result of shock or other medical related issues.
Scientist Miller for example comments on the exceptional cell oxygen loss beyond just the breathing difficulties alone combining to make asphyxiation the major cause of Jesus' death.
Medical views on the death by crucifixion of Jesus
But not by the act of crucifixion because his suffering could not be defined as that which is up to the real crucifixion of that time.
You may want to read more about the scientists view in the link I provided.
Posted by Mafy
- Oct 26, 2024, 01:25 PMWell, if by crucifixion, you mean nailed to a cross or something related to that - Maybe Yes.
But if by crucifixion you mean torture in the way the Romans usually go about it back then - then No.
Here's the thing...
John 19:30 to 33 says
"30. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
31. Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
Now let's look at John 19 verse 31 very well, "because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down."
There lies the answer. Was the torture Jesus went through before he gave up his spirit worth to be referred to as crucifixion?
I would say NO, he might be nailed and the issue of nailing him instead of tying him has been a debate.
The Gospel of John only describe bruises in the risen Jesus's hands. Maybe, It is this passage, that gives the impression that Jesus's hands and feet were nailed, rather than tied.
As for carrying his cross up the mountain, Only John particularly reports Jesus carried his cross, and others excluding John include Simon of Cyrene, who was employed by the soldiers from the gathering to carry or help carry the cross.
He was beaten, on his head was inserted a crown of thorns, he was given the vinegar through a sponge, but does this really equate to the then Romans' torture (which was called crucifixion) before his death?
I would say NO, he died so fast before the actual crucifixion (torture) could begin. He died on his own without being killed or going through the real crucifixion.
But if by crucifixion you mean torture in the way the Romans usually go about it back then - then No.
Here's the thing...
John 19:30 to 33 says
"30. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
31. Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
Now let's look at John 19 verse 31 very well, "because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down."
There lies the answer. Was the torture Jesus went through before he gave up his spirit worth to be referred to as crucifixion?
I would say NO, he might be nailed and the issue of nailing him instead of tying him has been a debate.
The Gospel of John only describe bruises in the risen Jesus's hands. Maybe, It is this passage, that gives the impression that Jesus's hands and feet were nailed, rather than tied.
As for carrying his cross up the mountain, Only John particularly reports Jesus carried his cross, and others excluding John include Simon of Cyrene, who was employed by the soldiers from the gathering to carry or help carry the cross.
He was beaten, on his head was inserted a crown of thorns, he was given the vinegar through a sponge, but does this really equate to the then Romans' torture (which was called crucifixion) before his death?
I would say NO, he died so fast before the actual crucifixion (torture) could begin. He died on his own without being killed or going through the real crucifixion.
Posted by Katreen
- Oct 26, 2024, 12:48 PMYes
There were eyewitnesses and that was the usual way of punishment by the Romans back then.
Crown of thorns was put on his head and he was flogged, he was also forced to carry his cross up the mountain. So, yes it did happen.
There were eyewitnesses and that was the usual way of punishment by the Romans back then.
Crown of thorns was put on his head and he was flogged, he was also forced to carry his cross up the mountain. So, yes it did happen.
Posted by Bruzno
- Oct 26, 2024, 12:38 PMYes, he died on the cross. There have been attestation to the crucifixion decades after his death.
Posted by Yace
- Oct 26, 2024, 11:40 AMIs there any kind of proof or evidence, maybe historical, scientifical, logical or any other type that truly confirms the crucifixion of Jesus?
